Monday, December 16, 2013

Recipe: Vegan Bigos

If you've spent any time in Poland in the winter—or if you have Polish roots, relatives, or friends—you've probably enjoyed bigos, the "hunter's stew" national dish that's busy keeping millions of mouths and stomachs happy and warm at any given time.

This incredibly versatile dish is very easily veganized, without any loss of texture, flavor, or warmth. This year's early arrival of winter sent us scrambling to buy sauerkraut, Tofurky kielbasa, and fresh-baked crusty European bread. Keep in mind that the variants below (traditional and slow-cooked) are only a suggested starting point: As every family has its own delicious recipe, don't worry if you're missing an ingredient or two (or want to add a few of your own). 

Serves 4-6 depending on portion sizes.


1 package diced Tofurky kielbasa (preferred, but any vegan sausage will do)
2 Tablespoons olive oil
1 32-ounce jar sauerkraut
1 28-ounce can/jar of tomatoes/tomato sauce
1 large diced onion
3 cubes (or liquid teaspoons) vegan bullion
1 medium diced apple
4 cloves diced garlic (or 1 tablespoon garlic powder/granules)
1 cup water
3 bay leaves
Salt and pepper, to taste


[1] Using water and bullion, create 1 cup of triple-concentrated broth. Set aside.
[2] Lightly sautee diced kielbasa, garlic, and onion together until just brown. Set aside.
[3] Strain sauerkraut (a little liquid is fine) and dump into large pot. Over medium-high heat, slowly stir in sausage mixture and all other remaining ingredients, and bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer for 45-70 minutes, stirring occasionally. Add salt, pepper, and any other ingredients (including water, for a soupier dish) during periodic tastings. Remove bay leaves before serving.

Slow cooker: Lightly sautee diced kielbasa, garlic, and onion together until just brown. Mix together with remaining ingredients in slow cooker and cook for 2-3 hours (until flavors have combined and sausage is not yet mushy), stirring occasionally.

Serving suggestions

Enjoy with mashed potatoes and/or with your favorite crusty European bread. Bigos goes well with just about any beverage, including hot tea or cold beer. There'll be plenty of leftovers for lunches in the coming week—they taste great cold or heated up!

Thursday, August 15, 2013

Interview: Meat Free Athlete Anne-Marie Campbell

Interview by Nikki Sabella

Why are we taught that we "need" animal protein to build muscle? Particularly since the strongest animals on Earth are herbivores?

A growing group of vocal athletes is using blogs, speeches at conferences, and—most dramatically—the example of their success in training and competition to prove otherwise. Famous vegan athletes like Brendan Brazier have inspired a new generation in regional championships and at our local gyms, and vegan athlete Nikki Sabella recently spoke with one of them—"Meat Free Athlete" Anne-Marie Campbell.

New Vegan Age: Does a vegan diet give you more edge as an athlete? And, if so, why?

Anne-Marie Campbell: There's been a definite improvement to my athletic performance since becoming vegan. I have more energy to train longer & harder, and I recover faster.

NVA: Can you compare your pre-vegan self to your vegan self?

AMC: I've always been an animal lover, but didn't make the true connections until I learned the truth about where my food came from. It was then I realized that I was supporting something that was abusing and exploiting innocent animals, and I didn't want any part of it. Now that I'm vegan, I am always looking to learn more and I enjoy living a compassionate lifestyle. It's a very rewarding journey.

NVA: What do other athletes think when they find out you're vegan?

AMC: A lot of people are surprised when they first find out that I'm vegan. Some are curious, and I'm more than happy to share what I know about vegan plant based nutrition and how it will benefit them in an active lifestyle.

NVA: What's your vegan-versary?

AMC: May 2011.

NVA: Tell us about your website and why you decided to start it.

AMC: Meat Free Athlete is a resource and community for vegan food, fitness, and motivation. It is the result of my passion for living an active healthy lifestyle, and veganism. I wanted to create a place where I can bust the myths about vegan plant based nutrition, be a voice and advocate for animals, and help people by leading by example. Becoming vegan is a personal journey for each person, and it rarely happens over night, so the website is a community and resource that welcomes everyone! I post recipes, health and fitness tips, and write a blog. People can join the free community, create a profile, network, and even write their own blog or fitness journal!

NVA: Explain your philosophy on training and fueling your body.

AMC: Listen to your body, above all. I've been a competitive athlete since I was 9 years old, so I've been through the injury/recovery cycle many (many) times, as well as mastering the mental game of sports. I've learned to have patience with your body when it's recovering from an injury, or even just a solid training session. Rest is an important key to longevity in any sport. Also, I am very competitive, but with myself most of all. I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else by me. I strive to be better than I was the day before. Being completely focused on my body and my progress is what motivates me. As for fueling my body, it's all about hydration and eating simple power foods, at the right time. My pre-training meals are usually simple beans and greens combinations, ie. five bean mix, raw kale or spinach, and raw mushrooms with balsamic drizzled on top. I also rarely consume caffeine because I don't want to be become dependent on it.

NVA: How do you find your "featured athletes"?

AMC: There's a form on that anyone can fill out to be featured! I will also approach people who I think will be an inspiration to others.

NVA: Who's your favorite vegan athlete/celebrity and why?

AMC: So many inspiring people are in the vegan community! I have met lots great people online and in person that I would have never met otherwise. So many compassionate people supporting each other, and sharing ideas and advice.

NVA: What do you make sure you eat every day, and why?

AMC: I eat what my body asks for, so I don't have a set meal plan. Some of my favorite foods are brown rice with beans, black beans, chick peas, lentils, quinoa, kale, spinach, mushrooms, organic unsweetened soy milk, tofu or tempeh, decaf green tea, and avocado.

NVA: Was it hard to get your six-pack?

AMC: I've had a 6 pack since I was young from my years as a competitive gymnast. In more recent years, I moved on to hockey and martial arts, and it's mostly about maintenance, which is just as important. For exact details on how, I have shared my Meat Free Athlete Guide to 6 Pack Abs - No Gym Required on my website, and it was also featured in Vegan Health & Fitness Magazine.

NVA: What's a random fact about you that people might not know?

AMC: I love sci-fi and documentaries about the universe.

NVA: Any last thoughts on the impact you're making?

AMC: My focus is on continuing to spread awareness about the benefits of vegan nutrition, and to be the voice for those without one. My goal is to lead by example and show the positive impact every single person can make on the world around them. People can join me on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

NVA: Thank you, Anne-Marie! All the best to you in all of your educational, meat-free, and athletic endeavors.

Interviewer Nikki Sabella hasn’t always been the fitness and health freak she is now. Most of her life was filled with sedentary TV watching and junk food eating until she discovered the vegan lifestyle in 2007. She now enjoys more energy, a healthier weight, a greater level of well-being, and a clearer conscience. When she’s not writing, she’s exercising hard, cooking, baking, or reading up on plant-based or eco-friendly subjects. She and her husband celebrated their vegan wedding last year.

Sunday, August 4, 2013

Interview: Artisan food entrepreneur Deboleena Dutta

Deboleena Dutta
Interview by Tom Epler

A few weeks ago, our local natural market was showcasing samples from HerbNZest, a gourmet sauce and spread company. While all of their suggested recipes or uses for their products aren't vegan, all of the ingredients in their products are—and we were so impressed by the Caramelized Apple Champagne Mustard that we bought a jar of it on the spot. 

I learned later that the company was started and is run by Deboleena Duttaan artisan entrepreneur who sources some of her primary ingredients locally. Check out my interview with her below—and be sure to try (or ask your local grocer to stock) their delicious products!

New Vegan Age: Many corporate employees dream of someday leaving CubicleLand to start a company that offers something healthy and organic. You're actually doing it! Tells us how HerbNZest started as an idea—and how it became a reality.

Deboleena Dutta: HerbNZest (double-meaning: Urban-Zest) offers a new twist on gourmet food with condiments that are fun, healthier, and easy enough to build everyday meals around or showcase on special occasions. The products are made in Pennsylvania in small batches using natural, vegan, and premium gluten-free ingredients.

After 10 years in corporate America spanning investment banking, and private equity, it was as a Summer Public Fellow doing a microfinance project in a remote village India during my MBA at The Wharton School that got me to re-evaluate my career and think outside the cubicle. As a self-proclaimed foodie, starting a food company was the obvious choice. What I do now, as a food entrepreneur and founder of HerbNZest truly brings together all the elements of my experience: my love of food, my role as a busy mom, and my experience as a business-woman.

As a child spending summers in my grandma’s kitchen in India, I was surrounded by the smell and taste of spices and herbs. It was only as an adult that my love of food turned into an exploration and experimentation of flavors discovered through travel to over 20 countries. Food brings together people like nothing else does and I love the experience of food and the stories and memories that are created around the table when one is enjoying and sharing food with family and friends.

Locals sample Dutta's sauces at an area farmer's market
NVA: Once you knew you wanted to start a company, how did you develop and settle on a vision for it?

DD: I realized how unhealthy and limited condiments and prepared foods on the store-shelves were: high in sugar, salt, fats, and artificial flavors. As a busy mom, I care for nutrition, versatility, and ease of use and not finding those options prompted me to create them!

For me it was very important to have fun with the process: it was a blast creating the flavor profiles such as Fennel Saffron Pumpkin Butter and Vegan Curry Pumpkin Pesto. For many condiments on shelves, the first thing that you taste is sugar. I wanted to highlight the fruit and the spices and herbs instead. I chose many premium ingredients for their health and taste factors: such as olive oil over canola, or brown sugar over cane sugar or kosher salt over regular salt, brown raisins (no sulphites) over yellow raisins.

The challenge is to incorporate the flavors with less sugar, salt and little or no oil. I also try to highlight certain flavors and textures to create a sensory experience: for instance the Caramelized Apple Champagne Mustard has chunks of sweet hand-caramelized New York apples to provide texture while the back end is spicy from the brown mustard base. And that is done through execution, the process that we use to actually create each flavor. Everything from choice of ingredients, to source of ingredients to final process plays an important role in the taste and nutrition of the product. As a result, our products have 10-20 calories, up to 3 gms sugar, up to 60 mg salt, and no Trans fats per tablespoon. Plus, we make our products in multiple small batches to ensure quality and taste.

When I tell people that we used our Basil Peach Chutney
to make a Peached Iced Tea recipe, I love their reaction, “Really, no kidding!” Then they taste the tea and want to replicate it for their summer BBQ. That is success in my mind because we just gave the hosts an idea that took them less than 10 minutes to execute, started a fun conversation at their party and allowed them to be the creative star!

My hope is to inspire people to be creative and have fun with food: we provide recipe tools and the suggestions and you create the meals and appetizers with little effort and time. At the end, the fun is about savoring the food with family and friends.

NVA. Why did you decide to offer vegan condiments with HerbNZest?

Vegan naan pizza with pumpkin pesto
DD: Our objective was simply to offer flavor-filled, healthier sauces that use vegan and gluten-free ingredients so that both vegans and non-vegans could use them. The choice to be vegan is the customer's. But we wanted to offer options that helped them develop fun and tasty meals. We are developing more and more vegan recipes on our website. For instance, we just developed this fun and easy Vegan Pizza recipe recently using our Vegan Pumpkin Pesto.

NVA: How do you ensure that a growing company—with all of the triumphs, setbacks, and innumerable details and questions that must be addressed—follows that broader vision every day, with every batch of products made and every contact with a customer or potential customer?

DD: That is the challenge: to be true to your mission while growing the company. With time, products and paths may evolve to meet customer needs better or to reach a different set of customers, but the broader mission will stay the same: to make innovative, quality products to inspire and serve our customers. We would ensure this by instilling our mission and setting quality standards and processes for everyone that manages or handles our product or is involved in serving our customers.

NVA: Has running your own company provided flexibility that you lacked in corporate America? Or, as the company grows, are you finding that it encroaches on that time you'd hoped to reclaim as a Mom?

Being an entrepreneur is a 24x7 job, especially in the beginning. I like to think of HerbNZest as my other baby! It needs time and nurturing and if you don’t attend to it, no one else will. However, connectivity today lends a whole different level of flexibility to the new age entrepreneur, so I am able to work some of my schedule around my kids. For instance, I can work out of my home office or finish work after 9pm when I have put my kids to bed. This would have been impossible during my Wall Street tenure.

In-store display/taste test
NVA: What advice do you give to other women who are thinking of following an entrepreneurial dream—of offering something they're passionate about to the community?

DD:  I would say, if you believe in something, if you want to make a difference, go for it! Your passion is the foundation but to build a business, you need to develop a business plan, do your market research, and figure out what resources, finances, and partners you need to develop your business.

Especially as women, it is important to make sure you have the right support system around you, ask for help and hold people accountable. And be willing to re-evaluate, accept failure, and change! And finally, be patient. Many successful companies started out as something else that was not initially as successful but they stayed the ground and changed their path to become who they are today.

NVA: Is there a financial advantage to sourcing ingredients locally? How about an emotional one? Have you found that customers ask about and appreciate this aspect of HerbNZest?

DD: Customers are really going back to local when it comes to food. There is an increased awareness: people want to eat fresh local produce and know where their food is sourced from. Moreover, during economic downturns, people want to support their local community and buying from their community helps establish a relationship with their farmer just like the old times.

At HerbNZest, we source local as much as we can such as using Jersey tomatoes for our Chive Tomato Relish and our Spoonable Curry Ketchup. Right now, sourcing locally can be expensive for small producers but as we grow we hope to have more purchasing power. We see ourselves as part of the revival of American manufacturing by creating food that is unique and artistic and high quality. And we will innovate as we go!

NVA: Though you've started here in Central New Jersey, where would you like your sauces and spreads to be available in five years? In twenty years?

DD: We hope to be the company that is known for its innovative, fun, versatile, and simple-to-use flavors. We are in specialty stores and natural stores in the Mid-Atlantic region now and hope to continue to steadily in the Eastern belt in the next 5 years. Our main objective is to continue to innovate flavors that our customers grow to love and expect and gradually be a part of people daily meals and special occasions all over the country.

NVA: What haven't we discussed today that you like to tell people about your company?

DD: We hope that young folks will think of HerbNZest when they want to make a quick meal. Busy moms, dads, and professionals will think of us for their everyday meals, and party goers and party-throwers will think of us as “right out of the jar” food. Our mission is to inspire people to explore food through their own easy creations and have fun with the experience: from shopping to cooking to sharing with family and friends.

For this reason, we provide a recipe tool on our website to search recipes by product and have suggested uses right on the jar!

NVA: Any upcoming events or new products you'd like to mention?

DD: Given my heritage, for the longest time, I have had customers come and ask me to develop curry flavored condiments and we listened!

We just launched our Vegan Curry Pumpkin Pesto and our Spoonable Curry Ketchup. Our curry flavors are not intensely curry flavored but rather inspired by the Indian curry (see our Keep Calm and Curry On blog), so they are flavorful and versatile and go over a broad array of foods like pasta, noodles, and grilled vegetables.

For an entrepreneur, the first phase of product development and launch is really the honeymoon phase: it is inspiring and positive, but now is where the real work begins and it is a tough road! So, I ask you, our local community to give our products a try, and if you like them, spread the word to your friends and family. If you create a recipe using HerbNZest that you enjoy, post it on our facebook or twitter account and we will be sure to respond. Your support means a lot to us and it’s what keeps us going: our fans!

HerbNZest flavors are currently sold in specialty and natural food stores listed here and online at And for those who would like to use us for their parties or events, we have an affiliate program and volume discounts. Email us at with your event idea.

NVA: Thank you, Deboleena! We wish you all the best and look forward to supporting you in the coming months and years. Keep us posted on your expansion and new vegan products!

Mango salad with mustard avocado dressing (recipe here)
Vegan garden salad with cranberry orange vinaigrette (recipe here)

Monday, July 8, 2013

Recipe: Philly Vegan Seitan Cheesesteak

Two years ago, I posted a recipe for a genuine Philly-style vegan hoagie. Since then, a few people have suggested a follow-up recipe for a genuine Philly-style vegan cheesesteak. I don't normally post recipes, but since I worked for a time at Lee's Hoagie House (and many omnivorous visitors to our vegan home have said how good these are), I feel qualified to suggest a really tasty version.

Though vegan, this is not, in any sense of the word, a health food. We make them once a month, if that! But we really, really look forward to them.

  • 1  container prepared seitan, finely diced (we recommend Michael's)
  • 2  12-inch sandwich rolls (we recommend Wawa classic)
  • 1  medium chopped organic onion (fresh or frozen)
  • 1  large chopped organic bell pepper (fresh or frozen)
  • 1  Tablespoon olive oil
  • 1/2 cup Daiya mozzerella or cheddar-style shreds
  • 1 Tablespoon Bragg liquid aminos
  • Himalayan sea salt, to taste
  • Fresh ground black pepper, to taste
  • Organic ketchup (optional, to taste)

Flash-fry chopped pepper and onion over medium heat in 1/2 Tablespoon of olive oil in large skillet for 3-4 minutes, adding salt and pepper while stirring, until heated through but not yet soggy. Pour into bowl and set aside.

Using same skillet, add remaining 1/2 Tablespoon of oil, diced seitan, and additional salt and pepper to taste. Turn continuously over medium heat for 3-5 minutes until browned, adding Bragg liquid aminos just before seitan is finished. After turning off heat, stir in cooked peppers and onions and Daiya shreds. Continue to stir heated mixture together until shreds have fully melted (2-3 minutes).

Serving suggestions

Either you grew up eating these sandwiches with ketchup, or you didn't. If you did, I recommend coating the inside of the roll before adding the finished filling to it. This sandwich goes great with your favorite oven-baked-hand-cut-fries-tossed-in-olive-oil recipe.

Thursday, June 27, 2013

Interview: Main Street Vegan author Victoria Moran

We found last year's Bethlehem VegFest memorable for several reasons. First, it was the hottest, muggiest day in recorded human history. Second, it was the first time we visited The Cinnamon Snail vegan food truck. Third, we returned home with a stash of Vegan Treats donuts. Fourth, and most importantly, it was the first time we heard Main Street Vegan author Victoria Moran speak—to an old-time revival tent packed with Veganism Believers.

If you're vegan, it's likely you're already familiar with this inspiring dynamo. And if you doubt how much energy Victoria taps into to spread her message of compassion and health, take a look at her websiteBetween her blog, podcast, the Main Street Vegan Academy, and what seems like a hundred other projects, one wonders if she ever sleeps!

New Vegan Age: For readers not yet familiar with you or your work, please share how and why you became vegan.

Victoria Moran: I’d always loved animals and first tried going vegetarian when I was thirteen. I lasted three months on cottage cheese and fruit cocktail before giving in to my mom’s roast beef with wild abandon. But I knew that when I was older I’d learn how to do this right.

When I was 18 and living in London, I’d gotten interested in yoga and saw yet another reason for going veg, but I was also on Weight Watchers which, at that time, required beef three times a week and fish five times a week. I was brave enough to let go of eating land animals, but I believed that stopping the fish would cause me to gain back all the weight I’d lost—some forty pounds. And guess what? It did! I see now that the reason wasn’t lack of fish: It was that I believed that I’d gain weight if I stopped eating fish, and I went back to binge-eating to prove that belief correct.

So, I was an obese—eventually some sixty pounds overweight—20-year-old vegetarian. I had early signs of type 2 diabetes. I did crash diets and water fasts and always followed with more binge-eating. Eventually, I discovered recovery for overeaters. I wasn’t just someone who liked food: I was an addict and needed to treat my situation as an addiction. When that happened, I was given, for the first time in my life, real power of choice around what I was going to eat. I chose vegan, lost the weight for keeps, and have never looked back. I tell the full story, and show others how they can do what I did, in my book The Love-Powered Diet: Eating for Freedom, Health, and Joy (Lantern Books, 2009).

NVA: Wow. That's incredible! Let's fast forward to the present. Your Main Street Vegan Academy (MSVA) is a week with you and other experts in New York City filled with vegan classes and visiting vegan hotspots, and results in a Vegan Lifestyle Coach and Educator certification. Tell us how this idea came to be. What impact do you see the Academy having in 10 years? Where will veganism in general be in 2023?

VM: Main Street Vegan Academy is arguably the most exciting thing I do. (It’s also the most labor-intensive: we just finished the June 2013 course and I’m exhausted, but exhausted in that great way of, ‘Gosh, I’ve hardly slept for a week, but I was involved in something magnificent!’) The idea grew out of the book, Main Street Vegan, which was published last year. After the publisher, TarcherPenguin, agreed to do the book, my editor told me I’d have to change its name because they didn’t like ‘Main Street.’ That was pretty devastating to me because it was so central to what I wanted to say. But miracles happen when you do this work, and one of them happened to me.

I was walking up Broadway in New York City, and there was Michael Moore, the filmmaker, surrounded by a group of fans. I knew he’d liked one of my earlier books, so I gave my business card to his sister who was waiting for him, and in a few seconds he was calling my name. We exchanged pleasantries and starting talking, both that day and later by phone. In one conversation, I told him about the book-title situation, and he said, “It’s a perfect title. Let me talk with your editor.”

So, in an incredible three-way call with Michael Moore, my editor, and me, he convinced her that I had the right title, and she convinced the decision makers at TarcherPenguin. The minute she called to say, “Okay, it’s Main Street Vegan,” my mind was flooded with ideas for other Main Street Vegan enterprises, the first of which was Main Street Vegan Academy, a 5 ½-day intensive in NYC to train and certify Vegan Lifestyle Coach/Educators.

The course is comprised of classes from a group of highly respected vegan experts including Marty Davey, RD, vegan pastry chef Fran Costigan (her new book, Vegan Chocolate, is coming in the fall), Michael Parrish Dudell (Michael is a marketing and business expert who’s worked with, American Express, GE, and Seth Godin), Jasmin Singer and Mariann Sullivan, JD, of, and vegan historian Rynn Berry, one of your interview subjects, who brings the roots of vegan living, from Pythagoras to Peter Singer, to life for our students.

I teach several classes, as well, and we take fabulous field trips. NYC is really Disneyland for vegans, and we hit high spots such as the Brooklyn boutique of Vaute (vegan fashions and dazzling winter coats), MooShoes, Babycakes Vegan Bakery, Obsessive Compulsive Cosmetics, High Vibe (a raw food market), and more, plus optional dinners out at some of New York’s notable vegan restaurants.

The program stays small—14 students max—so everyone gets attention. I also look for special events happening in the city during Academy weeks and do my best to get the students in for these. For example, the June class attended Ingrid Newkirk’s presentation at NYU that kicked off her first-ever nationwide lecture tour, and the August class will attend the Vegan MainstreamVegan Business Bootcamp” happening the same week as the MSVA program.

You asked what impact I think the Academy will have in ten years.

I can say that in the single year we’ve been around—we just graduated our 4th class—there are now Main Street Vegan Lifestyle Coach/Educators in locales including Montana, California, Texas, Wisconsin, Florida, North Carolina, Ontario, Germany, and Qatar. These folks are coaching individuals, lecturing, blogging, and starting vegan businesses. Their training here either jumpstarts a brand new philanthropic or entrepreneurial path, or infuses their current work with new knowledge and new purpose. Since they’re doing so much in their own communities and beyond already, it’s hard to imagine what they, and hundreds like them, will be doing in ten years. I just know it takes my breath away.

As for veganism in general, I believe it will continue to grow and thrive, but I expect some setbacks. It will lose its trendiness at some point: Trends have to either end or morph into something else. In addition, the industries that stand to suffer economically in a vegan or near-vegan world—animal agriculture, pharmaceuticals, the fur industry, etc.—are not going to watch their livelihood disappear without a fight.

But over time, as we’ve seen in the past few years, people’s consciousness will continue to expand in terms of compassion for all beings. In addition, the sickness care crisis will vividly bring the adoption of a more plant-based diet into that discussion, simply because our nation will go broke if we stay on the course we’re on. And, frighteningly, the environmental situation—climate change, emptying oceans, water shortages, and all the rest—will push humanity into raising fewer animals. I wish that we’d all go vegan for the pure joy of it, but I believe it will be a combination of people who want to follow this path and people who are forced into it by necessity.

The one thing that I think we as part of this movement need to focus on is unity. The seeds of division are taking root, from dietary fine points (no oil, all raw, nuts or not, etc., etc.) to the explosive rights/welfarist debate in the animal protection movement. We’re not as big as Christianity at the time of the Reformation, when various denominations could rise up and prosper; we need to be a united front for the animals, the planet, and dietary sanity. Of course we have our personal perspectives and we can talk late into the night among ourselves about our differing views and approaches, but in the bright light of day when the world is watching, we need to be united.

Adair & Victoria Moran
NVA: You raised your daughter (and Main Street Vegan partner) Adair through a healthy, productive childhood on a vegan diet. How did your relatives, friends, and even strangers react to that decision—particularly when you were pregnant and when she was an infant?

VM: First, I need to be completely upfront and tell you that Adair was sick a lot as a child. This was not because of being vegan—she’d have probably been sicker if she’d been drinking cow’s milk—but she got the family trait of sinus issues and she got it bad. (My dad was an ENT and my mom was a patient, so you can see the predisposition.) Anyway, Adair had frequent colds, ear infections, sinus infections, and bronchitis throughout her childhood and young adulthood, and it was awful—for her, certainly, and for me as her mom, believing that I’d tried everything, conventional and alternative, to help her and I wasn’t able to.

Looking back, I see two things I could have done differently. One, I could have found other homes for our four cats, as in retrospect I’m sure that being around them exacerbated her problems. At the time, that wasn’t even on my radar. They were family and she loved them with all her heart. So, we had cats. And, now that I know Karen Ranzi (author of Creating Healthy Children) and her story of curing her son’s asthma with a raw-food diet, I suppose I could have done a “purer” vegan diet and it may have mitigated some of my daughter’s issues. At the time, however, just being vegan was so outrageously bizarre that going even further didn’t really cross my mind.

The happy ending to all this is that Adair is fine now—and still vegan. She’ll tell you that what helped her was getting sinus surgery when she was eighteen; I believe there was some divine intervention with the late Indian guru, Sai Baba. Whether the answer is all scientific, all mystical, or some combination, she’s healthy today, active, and has a full-to-the-brim life as an actor, a stunt performer—she’s taping a stunt today for the USA Network series, Royal Pains—and a wildlife rehabilitator. (She and her husband live with two dogs, no cats.)

NVA: When criticism of raising a vegan child came, how did you address it in that moment? Separately, how did you remain calm and patient—say, later that evening—when you reflected back on the exchange and prepared to undoubtedly receive it again from someone else again the next day?

VM: There was almost no criticism. Once, when she was in a nursery program in Milwaukee and I sent her with fresh carrot juice instead of the soy milk that the teachers assumed was dairy milk, I got a form in her lunchbox informing me that my child’s lunch lacked one of the Four Food Groups, and “The Dairy Group” was checked, along with an explanation of why calcium was important. I was livid and pretty much pitched a fit, but it was really because my feelings were hurt. I’d been told, in essence, that I was a bad mother, or at least an ignorant one. If my ego hadn’t been in the way, this would have been an opportunity to share information about plant sources of calcium, but at the time I preferred being “right” to being effective.

The only other incident came when I took Adair (she was Rachael back then; she switched to Adair, her middle name, at fourteen) to an acupuncturist for her sinus issues. He burned her with moxibustion and then blamed her, saying “You wouldn’t be sick if you weren’t on this crazy, restrictive diet.” Well, mama bear showed up again and I totally read this guy the riot act, telling him that if the diet were indeed crazy, it was my doing and he needed to bring his complaints to me, not browbeat an innocent child.

But in all the years of her growing up, those were the only two instances of hostility we ran into. Admittedly, we did move in something of a hand-picked circle. We had our vegan friends through Vegetarian Summerfest and the like, and at home—most of her childhood was in Kansas City, Missouri—we were with moms and kids who’d been through La Leche League, were members of our food coop, fellow homeschoolers, or Adair’s theatre clan—all free-thinking, highly accepting people. Omnivorous and vegetarian parents accommodated Adair’s veganism much the way Protestant parents had accommodated me thirty years earlier when, as a Catholic kid, I wasn’t to have meat on Fridays. Extended family were equally accepting. I know it isn’t like that for everyone, but in our case it was.

Part of the reason for that may have been that I never doubted our veganism. There was never any, “Gee, gosh, maybe a few eggs…” I was committed, Adair was committed—she loved animals fiercely from the time she was an infant—and while people love to try to sway the unsteady, very few will challenge unwavering resolve. (The fact that I’d already written a book on the subject, Compassion the Ultimate Ethic, helped too. In those days, having a published book was still a rare and outstanding accomplishment. People wouldn’t argue with someone who’d “written the book”!)
Adair with a baby squirrel
that she rehabilitated

NVA: Adair's vegan infancy occurred long before experts were openly and accessibly talking and writing about how to raise a happy, healthy vegan baby. Where did you turn at that pre-Internet time for nutritional information? For emotional support?

VM: This was such a tiny movement back in the 80s, but there were resources. Freya Dinshah, co-founder of the American Vegan Society, was the main one: she was raising two children and had written on the subject. Later, Dr. Michael Klaper wrote a book about vegan kids, Rachael Adair among them. We had the Ten Talents cookbook by Seventh Day Adventist, Rosalie Hurd, who was raising a large family on whole foods, no animal products. I also got a great deal of support from La Leche League. The international support organization for breastfeeding mothers isn’t vegan, or even vegetarian, but it’s delightfully open-minded and diverse; those moms taught me how to be a mother.

NVA: You've written that you have looked and felt better as you have passed milestone birthdays—which is obviously the reverse of what many people experience—and that you attribute this to being vegan. In your experience, what arguments, evidence, and information can be most convincing to help people in their 50s, 60s, and 70s cut back on—or altogether renounce—animal products?

VM: The aging thing is so interesting to me. I’m 63 years old and I believe I look—and know that I feel—quite a bit younger. Certainly anyone my age, vegan or not, can catalog various physical changes that have transpired over the past 30 years, but despite these, vegans seem to age more slowly than the people around us, and a high percentage of us tend to present an overall impression of being younger than our chronological age. People deal differently with the cosmetic aspects—I color my hair, for instance; a lot of vegan woman don’t care to and look dazzling—but the things that really matter—being fit and energetic and healthy, having great skin, an intact libido, and a youthful enthusiasm for the day ahead—are part of the gift of eating a whole-foods, vegan diet.

I’m so interested in this topic, in fact, that I’m going to emphasize it some in my next book. I’m tossing around working titles—today I’m thinking The Glow Factor; sometimes I want to call it The Good Karma Diet. In any case, I wrote Main Street Vegan with a wide-open door, presenting every vegan option to people, with lots of “transitional” and “fun” foods to make the changeover easier. This next book will emphasize what you might consider doing if you do indeed want to look younger and “glowier” all your life. The women—and I know this works for men, too, but I’m focused on women—I see who do this best eat whole foods, a lot of raw foods, and they also exercise and meditate and take care of themselves as if they were priceless. We are all priceless, of course, but we don’t always recognize it.

Another project on the horizon for me is a documentary film—I won’t start that till mid-to-late-2014, after I finish the new book—on women who age exquisitely. I already have my list. My (joking) title at this moment is “The Incredible Ageless Woman!”

NVA: Back to patience for a moment. You counsel new vegans to prepare to be asked, every day and for the rest of their lives, where they get their protein. I also sometimes find it challenging to not repeat—especially to close friends and family— "Look at me! I've only had two minor colds since going vegetarian fifteen years ago! My lifelong allergies and acne disappeared when I went vegan three years ago! And it's not difficult! You can have the same thing!"

So, you're tirelessly supportive and patient in public, but don't you ever get frustrated about how easily people could change some of their most fundamental predicaments by going vegan? What is your strategy for handling defensiveness at the well-intentioned suggestion to consider going vegan?

VM: I suppose I fall into the same trap you do—saying, “Look, I’ve kept off over 60 pounds for nearly 30 years!” but the truth is, I had to go into recovery for compulsive eating in order to do that, so the vegan diet is only half the story.

And I envy you about the “two minor colds” thing. I still get colds, and the flu. It’s my weak link. In one of Ginny Messina’s presentations (she’s a vegan RD, co-author of Vegan for Life and the upcoming Vegan for Her), she has a slide that says there’s no validated evidence that being vegan will keep you from catching what’s going around, and I took some comfort in that. There’s so much anecdotal and empirical information around this, though, that it obviously works for some people—you, for instance: congratulations!

But back to your basic question: I look at veganizing the world the way a salesman looks at having everybody buy his product. He goes for warm leads, people who have already expressed an interest, people who are leaning this way already, or at least have a healthy curiosity. There’s no way I’m going to convince someone to do this who isn’t interested, who either doesn’t care about animals, health, or the environmentalism, or who is thoroughly convinced that what they’re doing now—locavore, organic meat, whatever—is addressing these issues just fine, thank you.

I proudly share that I’m vegan but I don’t offer additional information unless someone asks. People value information more when it comes like tapas—small portions. I have to restrain myself sometimes to keep from giving the 60-minute lecture, but I attempt to keep every answer to a sound bite. Then people hear me, and remember what was said, and very, very often, they ask for more. I also take comfort in that bit of conventional wisdom that suggests that people need to hear about something nine times before it really makes an impression. Maybe I’m vegan #6 for somebody.

And I love what they say in the 12 Step Programs about “attraction rather than promotion.” If I have something that appeals to people, they’ll want to do what I do. The 12 Steppers also say, “This isn’t for people who need it: it’s for people who want it.” The same is true for going vegan. If someone wants it who also happens to have type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure, great: this person wanted and needed it. But there are hundreds of thousands of people with that same health profile who have no interest in what they perceive as such a radical change.

My philosophy is that we get all those who are leaning this way and then, when vegans are 50% of the population, maybe, instead of 2.5%, we can go after the ones who genuinely do not want to do this.

Victoria meets a friendly turkey
NVA: You've said that most people come to veganism for two reasons—health or ethical concerns—and that over time, they usually come to understand and embrace the other way, in addition to their own. But what do you tell people who view the use of animals as an injustice—and not simply an "unhealthy choice"—who resent that it makes our way of living look inconsistent, fleeting, and fickle when the latest 'health vegan' celebrity announces he's abandoning it "because I lacked energy" or "admits that she missed meat"?

VM: The ex-vegan issue is a big one. I’ve always thought that if for some, inexplicable reason, I were ever to abandon my principles and go back to animal food (heaven forbid!), I’d do it quietly and with a grieving spirit. I’d be sad, bereft, embarrassed, and I can’t imagine that my response to those emotions would be to splatter all over the Internet that veganism is bad for everybody. Farm Sanctuary’s Bruce Friedrich, one of my beloved mentors in this movement, stated it so well when he called this approach “couching the abandonment of integrity in the guise of pseudoscience.”

I agree that being vegan, in the way that you and I and Bruce Friedrich and probably the bulk of your readers are vegan, is not a “diet.” I never say, for instance, “My dog is vegan.” I feed my dog vegan food, but if he could get hold of some chicken nuggets—or catch a squirrel—he’d be quite happy about it. Just eating vegan food does not a vegan make—not in that soul-deep, all-encompassing, ethical sense.

On the other hand, if I were the chicken who didn’t get tortured and slaughtered, I wouldn’t care if it was an ethical vegan or a health vegan who opted for the tofu. Even so, I do have concerns with many of the health-only people. First, lots of them aren’t vegan and, to their credit, most don’t pretend to be. They’re “plant-based” and their diets are close to vegan. They do not, however, have that ethical compunction that, in some hypothetical airport where the choice is grilled salmon or French fries (i.e., the “healthy” non-vegan option versus the unhealthy vegan one), would cause them to opt for the non-animal choice, no matter what. (When I think of the people I admire most in this movement—Bruce and Will Tuttle and John Pierre among them—I think that in that airport they’d abstain from both fish and fries and simply fast—maybe having a bottle of water—glass bottle, of course.)

NVA: I was excited to learn of your affiliation with Unity! My grandparents made pilgrimages to Unity Village and kept the literature at home; I still keep a Silent Unity prayer card from them in my wallet. Do you find any connections between veganism and the Unity acceptance of "honoring all paths to God" and "helping people discover and live their spiritual potential and purpose"?

VM: My connection to Unity started because my parents both worked and I was born in the days before daycare. They hired a woman to live with us and take care of me and she happened to be in Unity. She’d also studied Rosicrucianism and Christian Science and she told me about vegetarians, even though she wasn’t one herself, when I was five years old. With her, I’d go to the Catholic Mass as my father required, and then we’d hop on an express bus to the Unity church in Kansas City, the birthplace of both Unity and me.

Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, Unity’s founders, were vocal vegetarians and their first publication, Weekly Unity, had a vegetarian column for many years. Their son, Royal, was vice-president of the International Vegetarian Union at one point, and their son, Lowell (who lived into his 90s) was vegetarian all his life. The other son, Rick, ate meat and took the reins of the organization so the vegetarian message went underground. The Unity Inn, opened as a vegetarian restaurant in the 1800s, started serving meat but kept one vegetarian entrĂ©e on the menu every day. Unity continued to publish a sole pamphlet called “Vegetarianism” but most churches didn’t order it because the individual ministers were, almost exclusively, not vegetarian.

That is slowly changing. When Main Street Vegan was published, Adair and I were contacted by Denise Blake, a vegan herself and the head, at that time, of Unity Online Radio. She said: “Would you like to have a show on our station? You can call it ‘Main Street Vegan.’ It’s about time we got back to our roots.” It’s become wildly popular. We’ve had great guests including Drs. Neal Barnard, Michael Greger, and Brian Clement, and other experts such as Kris Carr, Jonathan Balcombe, James McWilliams, and Skinny Bitch co-author Rory Freedman, who announced on our show for the first time publically that she had a internal change and is no longer going to swear or use profanity, either in her personal life or in her writing. (Her new book, Beg: A Radical New Way of Regarding Animals, is superb.)

The Main Street Vegan Show airs live on Wednesday afternoons at noon Pacific and 3 Eastern time, and it’s podcasted for listening later at, and on iTunes. That way you can access the past show with Rory or anyone else you find particularly appealing.

I’ve also been invited to go out to Unity headquarters in suburban Kansas City, Missouri, and do a pro-veg retreat April 11-13, 2014. It’s called “The Look-Great, Feel-Amazing, Age-Later Lifestyle.” Anyone who is interested in that can contact Denise Blake,

As for how living a vegan lifestyle complements the spiritual teachings of Unity, I have to say that I believe it complements the spiritual teachings of all religions and any kind of non-religious spirituality that seeks to help individuals find meaning and create a better world. Unity is very big on the power of thought and when you make the mental switch to go vegan, a great deal of power is generated to heal your life and let that ripple out to heal the world. As I see it, there’s no downside.

NVA: Thank you so much, Victoria. We hope to attend the Main Street Academy next year. In the meantime, we'll continue to be faithful friends and fans of your work!

Monday, June 17, 2013

Interview: Author and vegan champion Rynn Berry

January 10, 2013 UPDATE: So terribly sorry to learn this morning of Rynn's death, and I've posted a tribute here.

If you're vegan, if you've ever lived or worked in New York City, or if anyone has ever attempted to liken you to Hitler because of your vegetarianism or veganism, you owe a debt of gratitude to Rynn Berry.

The prolific author and longtime vegan who serves as Historical Advisor to the North American Vegetarian Society has spent his life educating and informing people about how to celebrate veganism—no matter how hard it can sometimes be to live so differently than the rest of society.

Long before the Internet made vegan restaurant searches and reviews so easy, Berry published The Vegan Guide to New York City. The guide even featured a graphical "thumbs up" icon next to featured reviews a decade before Facebook popularized the image—let alone existed. I had the good fortune of meeting Berry twelve years ago when he inscribed the 7th edition of the guide for me at the Union Square Greenmarket. At that time, I'd only been vegetarian for about four years—and he was the first person I asked about veganism.

If you're "meeting" Berry today for the first time, enjoy this fascinating chat with a modern vegan pioneer—and take a look at (and help spread the word about) some of his other important work!

New Vegan Age: How have you been? How are you spending most of your time these days?

Rynn Berry: Having just run a 10K race in Brazil, and having just put out the 19th annual edition of The Vegan Guide to New York City, I’m in tip-top condition, physically and mentally. Currently, I’m working on the 20th anniversary edition of The Vegan Guide to New York City, as well as several other literary projects.

NVA: Please share with us how your early life experiences led to the dedication of your life's work to vegan research and writing. Were any animals, authors, or ideas particularly influential? How did they enter your life or come to your attention and impact your work?

RB: When I was 19, and an undergraduate at University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, I learned that before they are slaughtered to supply humans with meat, animals excrete adrenaline in anticipation of their death. That was enough to convince me that animals are fellow sentient beings who should not be tortured and dismembered for human delectation. I became a vegetarian on the spot, and decided that I wanted to dedicate my life to mitigating and eliminating animal suffering at the hands of humans.

NVA: Your popular Vegan Guide to New York City, a must-have for vegans and vegetarians who visit, live, and work in the city, is now in its 19th edition. How did the first edition come to fruition?

RB: After attending an international vegan conference in Malaga, Spain, in 1994, my two friends and I collaborated on the first edition of The Vegan Guide to New York City. It was just a  slender, saddle-stitched pamphlet really. There were so few veg. restaurants at the time that we had to bulk up the guide with so-called vegetarian-friendly establishments, i.e. restaurants  that served animal flesh but condescended to cater to the culinary whims of vegetarians.

The very next year, my two erstwhile collaborators went off to graduate school (in England and California respectively); so, it fell to me to carry on the work of putting out an annual edition of the vegan guide. Not long after they left, I made the guide exclusively vegetarian. Serendipitously, I discovered that vegan restaurateurs are unsung animal activists who perform direct action every time they serve a delicious vegan meal.  Every time a non-vegetrian partakes of a vegan meal, an animal life is saved.

At last count, there were over 136 listings for vegan and vegetarian restaurants. Now in its twentieth year, The Vegan Guide to New  York City still enjoys the distinction of being the first and only exclusively vegetarian guide book on the planet.

NVA: What have some of the highlights (and challenges) of the guide's updating process been through the years?

RB: At first “vegetarian” and “vegan” were such highly charged, controversial terms, that many stores refused to stock the book. Gradually as even veganism has become socially acceptable, not to say admirable, The Vegan Guide to New York City has become ubiquitous. Now it is being sold in restaurants, health food stores, gift shops, stationery stores, on-line stores, news stands and bookstores, etc. Moreover, there is so much dynamism in the market what with the myriad openings, closings, and shifts of location, that keeping abreast of all the changes is another challenge. It’s the principle reason why I revise The Vegan Guide to New York City every year.

NVA: How has the introduction of the mobile app for the guidebook changed how people use and interact with the guide?

RB: The mobile app has vastly increased the audience for The Vegan Guide to New York City. Surprisingly enough, the mobile app version has augmented sales of the print version. People still like to have the tactile sensation of holding a book in their hand. Nonetheless, the app version is reaching people for whom the smart phone has become almost an anatomical appendage.

NVA: In addition to the Guide, you've authored several other books on vegetarianism, including one refuting the famous assertion that Hitler was a vegetarian. How did that project come to be, and how has it been received through the years?

RB: As the author of a bestselling book titled Famous Vegetarians (a biographical history of vegetarianism that spans 3,000 years), I was constantly being heckled by hostile non-vegetarians, who during my lectures, or at book signings, would invariably ask me why I hadn’t included Adolf Hitler among the Famous Vegetarians. So, I decided to research the matter in order to ascertain whether this butcher of Europe was in fact a vegetarian.

To my dismay, I found that historians of the second world war and Hitler biographers stoutly maintain that he was a vegetarian in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Since no one had written a book that marshals the evidence to prove that Hitler was not a vegetarian, I decided to write a book on the topic—Hitler: Neither Vegetarian, Nor Animal Lover. When the book was published, The London Times wrote a feature article on it. For the article, the reporter interviewed Sir Ian Kershaw, professor of modern history at Sheffield University.

As the author of a three-volume biography of the Fuhrer, Sir Ian is held to be the world’s leading authority on Hitler. The reporter asked Sir Ian for his assessment of my book. Sir Ian opined as follows: “To say that Hitler was not a vegetarian is just an absurd allegation. It is true that Hitler was inconsistent at times, and that there was the odd extreme exception, but he ate what was by any stretch of the imagination a vegetarian diet. The fact that vegetarians don’t like the fact that Hitler was a vegetarian shouldn’t deny the fact that he was one.”

This is typical of the attitude of European historians towards Hitler’s diet. Sir Ian concedes that Hitler “was inconsistent at times, and that there were odd extreme exceptions.” So how on earth can Sir Ian possibly classify Hitler as a vegetarian? Sir Ian and others of his ilk are not practicing vegetarians; so they don’t seem to realize that one cannot be a vegetarian and be so inconsistent as to eat liver dumplings, and cured meats, which eyewitnesses attest that Hitler did on a regular basis. If anything, Hitler was a flexitarian. By no stretch of the imagination could he accurately be called a vegetarian.

My recent letter to the London Telegraph neatly epitomizes the whole matter. In my letter I upbraided Royah Nikkah, the author of the article, "Hitler’s Food Taster Speaks of Hitler’s Vegetarian Diet." I accused her of trying to have it both ways: On the one hand, she implies that Hitler was a vegetarian on the strength of the testimony of one of his former food tasters, Margot Woelk, 95. In a recent interview Ms. Woelk stated that she had been a member of a 12-person team who tasted Hitler’s food—lest he might have been poisoned—for one hour a day from 11am to 12 noon, for a period of 800 days.

On the other hand, Ms. Nikkah admits that Mr. Hitler "was not fastidious about declining meat. Dione Lucas, his cook before the war, claimed that he was a fan of stuffed pigeon, and he was also known to be partial to Bavarian Sausage and the occasional slice of ham.” Ms. Nikkah doesn’t seem to realize what constitutes a vegetarian. According to the World Book encyclopedia, a vegetarian is defined as “a person who eats only vegetable foods and refrains from eating meat, fish, or some other animal products, especially one who does so on the basis of principle."

So, if Hitler was indulging in stuffed pigeon, Bavarian sausage, and the occasional slice of ham—which Ms. Nikkah acknowledges that he did—then Hitler was emphatically not a vegetarian. At best, he was a flexitarian, or one who eats a mixed diet of vegetables and meat, or fish and other animal products.

Personally, I am chagrined that so many of the people who have reviewed my book, Hitler: Neither Vegetarian, Nor Animal Lover, on Amazon and elsewhere, give no evidence of having read it. Clearly, they are anti-vegetarian ideologues, who are using HItler (and the latest misinformation about him) to bash vegetarianism.

NVA: Well, on behalf of vegetarians and vegans everywhere, thank you for your tireless work to clarify this important historical issue. Speaking of history, during your years of service as the historical advisor the North American Vegetarian Society, how have societal attitudes towards vegans changed? In what ways have they improved, and what can ordinary vegans do to help perception continue to improve?

RB: Clearly, there has been a paradigm shift in societal attitudes towards veganism. Our cultural trendsetters—film stars like Toby McGuire and Woody Harrelson; TV personalities like Bob Barker and Ellen Degeneris; athletic champions like ultra-marathoner Scott Jurek and Olympian Carl Lewis (who garnered a record number of gold medals in track and field); pop music icons like Paul McCartney and Moby—all have embraced a vegan lifestyle.

Bookstores now boast entire sections dedicated  to vegan cookbooks with too-clever titles like How It All Vegan or Skinny Bitch in the Kitch. Distinguished physicians like Dr. Neil Barnard, MD; Dr. Caldwell, Esselstyn M.D.; Dr. Dean Ornish, M.D.; and Dr. John McDougall, M.D. have written bestselling books advocating a vegan diet to cure cancer, reverse heart disease; reverse diabetes, etc. Business moguls like Mort Zuckerman; Steve Wynn, and Russell Simmons; political bosses like Bill Clinton (the first vegan ex-president of the US), and Dennis Kucinich (the first vegan to run for the US presidency)—have all gone vegan.

There are at least a few vegan restaurants in every major city in the US. Vegan packaged foods and frozen entrees, made with ersatz dairy products, are available in local supermarkets. Just a decade ago, such an efflorescence of veganism would have been inconceivable. Now veganism is one of America’s burgeoning social movements. Vegans can contribute to the momentum by taking a non-vegetarian to lunch at a spiffy vegan restaurant, and by setting a shining example for non-vegetarians to follow.

NVA: What current and upcoming project or projects most interest you at present? Are there any ways for others to contribute to/support them or otherwise get involved?

RB: I recently contributed seven entries on veganism and allied topics to the second edition of The Oxford Encyclopedia of American Food and Drink. It runs to three volumes. My most recent book is a collaborative effort—Becoming Raw: An Essential Guide to Vegan Raw Food Diets. I contributed the historical section to that book. I’m currently working on expanding that section into a book on the history of the raw food movement in America. And of course, I am currently working on the forthcoming edition of The Vegan Guide to New York City.

NVA: And how can readers find out more about you and your work?

RB: Readers may Google or Bing my name, Rynn Berry. They may order my books from or Barnes &, as well as from other on-line bookstores.

NVA: Any final thoughts?

RB: Using The Vegan Guide to New York City as an oracle: When I first started the guide 20 years ago, there were only a handful of vegan restaurants in New York City. Now New York City boasts the greatest wealth of vegan restaurants in the world. My book has grown from a saddle-stitched pamphlet to a quality paperback that has an international readership. If veganism were a stock, I would certainly invest in it. Its growth has been exponential and will ever continue thus.

NVA: Thank you so much, Rynn. We are grateful for you and your work, and we look forward to keeping up with your future projects. Keep us posted!